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March 12, 2023 11:40
fazerco
No, that is not a philatelic item.

What I'm talking about are Maximum cards. It is about Maximaphilia, part of philately.
Not everything that has something on it that looks like a seal is a philatelic item. There are also freak items (rarities).

Not everything with a postcard, stamp and stamp is Maximum card. There are international rules and agreements about this.
One of those rules is that the stamp must be glued to the image side of a postcard, and stamped there (preferably philatelic).
There must be similarity (theme) between stamp and postcard (the picture).
The date of stamping is irrelevant. In other words: a maximum card with a stamp issued in 1995 may have been created (postmarked) in 1999.

Morits
Then I hope that the 'postcards' handbook clearly describes how you, as a user, can make that link when adding a maximum card in that section. How to look up the item (or items) you want to link to. Links are not created automatically, you, as an adder, have to indicate with which you want to link.
Of course, the administrators can also do all that afterwards ...
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March 12, 2023 12:55
It is about Maximaphilia, part of philately.

But we don't have a philately section, but we do have the stamps section, the postcards section, other for stamps, soon perfins I thought.
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Helv
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March 12, 2023 15:11
Then I hope that the 'postcards' handbook clearly describes how you, as a user, can make that link when adding a maximum card in that section. How to look up the item (or items) you want to link to. Links are not created automatically, you, as an adder, have to indicate with which you want to link.
Unless the link is wrong, there is no handbook for postcards, but the basic handbook is used.
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az60
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March 12, 2023 15:36
But we don't have a philately section, we do have a stamps section
I wish you were right, but alas, a simple section of stamps has long since become obsolete. Just look at what the Collecteur has been working on lately. It is the delineation of the philately section, by establishing species and subspecies. And in that demarcation you also come across border situations with other categories. I have already tried, in vain, to place everything defined by a stamp (FDC, occasional envelope, etc.) in the 'section' postmarks. Now a number of people accidentally come across common ground with the category Postcards. As far as is known, this concerns Maximum Cards and Postal Stationery. We will have to come up with a solution for that.
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March 12, 2023 16:51
Unless the link is wrong, there is no manual for postcards, but the basic manual is used.

Like 64 other categories, Postcards does not have its own handbook. But that's not what this is about, it's about the ancient question: Why do I exist as a Postcard or Postal Stationery :-)

As sometimes happens with other categories, Postcard collectors shy away from starting a discussion with Stamp Administrators. That is why a few free spirits such as fazerco feel compelled to resist the idea that everything that smacks of stamps belongs to the Stamp category. I don't blame anyone for that, everyone is free to express their opinion, provided it is respectful.
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az60
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March 12, 2023 17:21
Hence, a single free spirit feels compelled to resist
That used to happen quite often in the past. I always appreciated it. Could happen more often for me.
The time of the comic books and the piss stamps. Ah, the good old days. :-).
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March 12, 2023 18:24
Then we'll make such a section https://www.lastdodo.nl/nl/catalog/94-luchtvaart
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March 12, 2023 19:14
Or (alternative 1) I stop for 6 months, and then see if it is already clear where they should (may) be. That is also an option.
Now they are partly in section 1 (where the necessary fields are present), and partly in section 2 (where the necessary fields are not present).
Adding new ones in section 1 if they already exist in section 2 is not allowed (not vice versa either). Add new ones that are not yet present on LD ... in which section?
How can a collector manage his things like that? Soon someone will tell me that you first have to look and search in 30 categories before you can add an item (and then I don't know in which category yet).
That's what matters to me.
How the hell can someone who collects purely for pleasure (and does not do philately) make sense?
Maybe I should add some for the time being in the category cigar bands, or sugar sachets (alternative 2) ... There the administrator can then clearly indicate to which category they should be moved ...
Alternative 1 or 2?
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Morits
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March 12, 2023 20:29
Raoul62
This last contribution literally adds nothing to this discussion. Might as well not have been written...
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March 12, 2023 20:47
Morits
Do you want to give some added value? Then I can continue:
Which of the following items, from the same series, of the same kind, is in its correct category:
#6728563 (No. 19, in the postcards section) or #6859167 (No. 23, in the stamp section). Both items have been on LD for 5 years.
And ... in which section should no. 22 of the same series be added?
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Morits
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March 12, 2023 21:16
Raoul62
Unfortunately, I won't be challenged...no sense...
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Helv
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March 12, 2023 21:22
Collectioneur I've now also added the city postmark ( #9671995 ). Does the Moscow section now have to be filled in, because that is where the stamp has been placed? Or Yessentuki to keep the link with the postcard?
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az60
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March 12, 2023 21:47
I do agree with Morits' comment. You sometimes want to throw your ass against the groyne in a headwind. (I know, cold ground psychology).
But I appreciate your search for a (quick) solution. I agree with the latter and appreciate what you're trying to do. Without having heard a lawyer or prosecutor, I also believe that items belong in 1 place and should not be scattered. (Where that is, I leave in the middle)
But in this case you need support. Support from the Postcards managers, support from the catalog manager. You can't do it without support. You are not an administrator of either category.
Collectioneur indicates:
Then those items are merged.
But does not specify how. fazerco gives a reference, but does not indicate what it means. I think he means this: sugar packets . In other words, the problem occurs in more places. I'm curious how this problem has been dealt with in the past. Have decisions been made? Is it still floating? I haven't heard an argument or decision yet. So I hope there are people who can shed some light on this.
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March 13, 2023 06:45
az60
Philately is a themed section, just like the aviation section, which also contains dozens of postcards.
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Morits
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March 13, 2023 07:27
fazerco
huh? I never saw this, I thought that was not allowed, how is that?????
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March 13, 2023 08:00
Morits ea
Philately is a themed section, just like the aviation section, which also contains dozens of postcards.
huh? I never saw this, I thought that was not allowed, how is that?????

It dates from the early days, when a thematic design was still being considered. We had several such sections, including: Art Deco, Devotionalia, Animal, Disney, Royal House, Brand, Militaria.
Aviation still needs to be emptied, the items need to be migrated to other sections.
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March 13, 2023 08:14
Unfortunately, I won't be challenged...no sense...

Then I'll try:
Ask a thousand people on the street if this is a postcard and everyone will agree.
These cards were made, sold and bought as postcards at the time, and not to be included in a stamp collection as a Postal Stationery.
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March 13, 2023 08:25
I have now also added the city postmark ( #9671995 ). Does the Moscow section now have to be filled in, because that is where the stamp has been placed? Or Yessentuki to keep the link with the postcard?

In the Other section it concerns the stamp impression for the Object = Postmarking.
You now have the name "Jessentuki" there as a Part, shouldn't that be "Moscow"?
Links are for bringing items together as a theme. So you can, for example, link "Moscow" with Postcards, Maps/Map, Stamps, etc.
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Helv
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March 13, 2023 08:29
Ask a thousand people on the street if this is a postcard and everyone will agree.
These cards were made, sold and bought as postcards at the time, and not to be included in a stamp collection as a Postal Stationery.

This line of reasoning has been tried before by Rene and, in my opinion, has been refuted with sufficient examples. I don't think it makes sense to repeat moves.

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Helv
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March 13, 2023 08:53

I have now also added the city postmark ( #9671995 ). Does the Moscow section now have to be filled in, because that is where the stamp has been placed? Or Yessentuki to keep the link with the postcard?

In the Other section it concerns the stamp impression for the Object = Postmarking.
You now have the name "Jessentuki" there as a Part, shouldn't that be "Moscow"?
Links are for bringing items together as a theme. So you can, for example, link "Moscow" with Postcards, Maps/Map, Stamps, etc.
I want to link the postmark to the specific card. Otherwise a link doesn't seem very useful to me.
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Morits
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March 13, 2023 09:32
Collectioneur
Well come on because it's you, in LD the object determines which category it belongs in, in this case Postcards. Point.
A shared advertising brochure does not determine that the relevant magazine or similar must be included in advertising brochures, does it?

Helv
That is still the problem, linking to a specific item is not yet possible.

Edit:
I charge a lot here:
Now that I've discovered the Aviation theme, I don't understand why this hasn't been appropriated in the stamp section yet #9324315 or #8090563 .
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Helv
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March 13, 2023 10:44
Morits you are absolutely right: #8090563 belongs to the stamp category, it is an occasion card.

Morits
Well come on because it's you, in LD the object determines which category it belongs in, in this case Postcards. Point.
This reasoning only applies if you can prove that the object is not a postal stationery.
Unfortunately it is a postal stationery.

According to the LD policy, an item may only be included once. This means that a choice must be made between one of the two categories. As a result, either the Postcard catalog is inherently incomplete, or the Post Stationery catalog is inherently incomplete.
Neither seems desirable to me.

Collectioneur Since we are "challenging" anyway, I hereby posit that Lastdodo's current policy of only admitting an item once does not do justice to the complexity of reality. For various collection areas this leads to incomplete overviews/catalogues. Besides Postal Stationery and Postcards I have more examples (stamps with a double role as fiscal stamp and postage stamp; stamps with a double role as stamps and emergency money).

The simple solution is to allow items that belong to multiple categories to be entered in multiple categories. The difficult solution requires programming effort (and I don't think will make it any easier for the user).
Browsing through the "Other" category, I see quite a few items that I don't think have any collectible value. Why that is allowed and objects with a "double collectible value" are not allowed twice is a mystery to me.
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March 13, 2023 15:00
Collectioneur
Aviation still needs to be migrated.
Wouldn't it be a good idea to set up a 'block' there?
So that you can no longer enter anything in this section. .
When I click on new items under Aviation, 41 items have been added since 12-22-22.
Postcards alone about 20. And that's only going to be more...

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March 13, 2023 15:15
The simple solution is to allow items that belong to multiple categories to be entered in multiple categories.
Totally agree Helv , why make it difficult when it can be done easily?.
Then the example of Raoul62 ( #6859167 and #6728563 ) can also remain as it is.
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Morits
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March 13, 2023 15:46
buizer
You are absolutely right, aviation is a theme section and as such has no right to exist (anymore). All items must be moved in due course.
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