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Helv
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March 08, 2023 14:12
The postcard below shows an oval stamp showing that postage is due. The amount, 6 kopecks, is inscribed by hand.

Does this object belong in the stamp category? If yes under port usage type?

If not, where does it belong? Postcards (the front contains a picture) or cancellation?


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az60
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March 08, 2023 14:42
On my feeling:
I don't see a po(r)(s)tamp. It will also be difficult to fill in some fields. Which issue? Which colour? what face value? Etc. So I wouldn't do it with the stamps.
The stamps are valuable. It kind of indicates the way of working. A kind of time document. I would prefer that to the postcard, unless there is also a time document there. I can't judge that. As far as I'm concerned with postmarks.
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Helv
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March 08, 2023 14:52
az60 thank you. I actually found the left stamp even more remarkable than the postage stamp. The stamp on the left still refers to "Moscow City Post".
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Helv
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March 08, 2023 21:52
Collectioneur should the above item be added as a whole? Or is each stamp a separate item? On the one hand I think that in the LD tradition the object should be added as a whole, but on the other hand I think postmarks will never become a manageable area.

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March 09, 2023 07:56
Helv
The item is a Postcard.
If the stamp impressions are important and have not yet been added as Postmark , you can make and add a cut-out per stamp and link to the Postcard.
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Helv
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March 10, 2023 22:36
Collectioneur I'm not clear on how to get the postage stamp ( #9668829 ) can link to the specific postcard #9667193 . For now I have linked the postage stamp to the town of Essentuki in Postcards, but I don't think that is quite what you mean.

For the postmark on the receiving side (Moscow City Post) the link to Yessentuki becomes illogical. Moscow would make more sense, but then you're referring to all sorts of other cards and not this particular one that has the stamp on it.

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az60
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March 10, 2023 23:29
Collectioneur
I couldn't either.
But I did see an important point:
In the context of the discussion about postal stationery. There is a claim for the same items in both the Postcards section and the Stamps section. In Postcards there is the field:
Pre-printed stamp: with the choices No or Yes. With No there is no problem, but with Yes it is identical to the type of Postal Stationery for stamps. We are only interested in another side of the item. The postcards on the front, the stampers on the back. But there is a chance of double entry.
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March 11, 2023 00:01
In Postcards there is the field:
Pre-printed stamp: with the choices No or Yes.
That field has only recently suddenly appeared, so it can suddenly disappear again with the same ease.
Think first, change later. Quick decisions usually lead to bad results.
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March 11, 2023 08:13
Helv
You can only link an item to a Collecting area, not 1 on 1 to an item.
At #9668829 I have now added a Postmark section called Jessentuki.
From the Postcard #9667193 I have made a link to Other/Parts/Postmarking.
It is certainly not ideal, we still need to learn how to deal with the mechanism of couplings better.

Slightly offtopic: Under Other there are various Objects and Types that have something to do with stamps / cancellations. A great opportunity for someone with a philatelic streak to take a thorough look at it.
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March 11, 2023 08:28
We are only interested in another side of the item. The postcards on the front, the stampers on the back. But there is a chance of double entry.

LastDodo is interested in the item.
The item is the postcard, of which both the front and the back are important.
Philatelists consider the pre-printed stamp and cancellation important regardless of the rest of the card.

The risk of items being entered in multiple sections applies to all sections, observant users/administrators regularly encounter this phenomenon. Then those items are merged.
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March 11, 2023 11:44
Slightly offtopic: Under Other there are various Objects and Types that have something to do with stamps / cancellations. A great opportunity for someone with a philatelic streak to take a thorough look at it.

A user has already been busy moving everything with a stamp/stamp on it there. Not that the item imported by the importers was ever intended for that purpose.......
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Helv
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March 11, 2023 12:00
Collectioneur I can't quite follow the reasoning that postmarking is part of postmarking. Instinctively, I would add the postmarking part to the postcard.

Is that because there is no other way?
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March 11, 2023 12:41
Helv
Postcards, just like Stamps, does not have the option to add items. This is possible with a category such as Comics, Music and Other. So a Postmarking part of Postcards is not possible.
That the postmarking under postmarking is correct, something needs to be done about that. A category such as Other mainly has open lists that anyone can add to.
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March 11, 2023 16:31
Helv Collectioneur
I once bought a postcard.
I bought a stamp and pasted it on the postcard.
Then had a postcard with a stamp on it.
I put the card on the bus (the postage was stamped on the postcard and sent to myself.
I received a postmarked postcard that was canceled.
So stamp and stamp are always parts of ... yes right
And actually that stamp 'cannot separate' from the card.
And basically you can't/shouldn't enter it...
But yes, yet another exception; Let's just say, exceptions prove the rule...
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Helv
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March 11, 2023 16:39
buizer hence my questions to Collectioneur about the correct method here, with the caveat that my story is slightly different: in my collection it is about a stamp that is necessarily on a piece of paper.

The fact that there is a photo on the piece of paper is a "nice coincidence", especially since the place name of the postmark matches the image.

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March 11, 2023 16:57

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March 9, 2023 7:56 AM
Helv
The item is a Postcard.
If the stamp impressions are important and have not yet been added as Postmark , you can make and add a cut-out per stamp and link to the Postcard.

Seemed clear to me. Or are we going that way again that there are 60 postcards with the same stamp other items according to Helv buizer

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March 11, 2023 21:29
fazerco
I just wanted to say. You can enter what can come loose. But how is that postmark going to get loose from the postcard.
And according to the rules of LD, a postmark alone/separately may not be entered.
Now solved by cropping and placing in Other.
60 postcards with the same stamp.?
You can see the stamp in Figure 2.
And on image 1 the 'photo' of the postcard.
And yes then you have 60 sight cards with the same stamp.
But 60 different postcards.
Wabnt duplications are merged by the administrator anyway.
A postcard in Ansichtkarten with on photo 1 the front and photo 2 back of the card with stamp and cancellation.
And from the same card a cut-out of the postmark on photo 1 on Other .
And you can still put it under Details: see also " #xxxxxxx " (LD number postcard)
And are postmarks collected 'geographically' or by date? Or both?
.
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Helv
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March 11, 2023 23:18
Collectioneur why don't allow parts on postcard. Can there be a postmark?

Furthermore, there are new insights regarding postal stationery, so I agree with user-1713548 that the following field can be removed:
Pre-printed stamp: with the choices No or Yes.
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March 12, 2023 01:00
Helv Collectioneur user-1713548 @fazerco
For postcards there is now a field 'Pre-printed stamps (Yes or No).
Create another 'Cancellation' field (Yes or No).
You can then view the stamps via the filters and selection of image 2. In this section anyway.
Because letter envelopes, for example, are listed under Other.
And the simplest solution of all.
A new section only for postmarks.
Something for a stamp collector so Helv maybe...?
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March 12, 2023 08:13
For postcards there is now a field 'Pre-printed stamps (Yes or No).
Create another 'Cancellation' field (Yes or No).
And what is the added value of this? Also remember that each item can only be included once, must be a feature of the item and must be uniquely identifiable.
If you have a postcard with stamp=yes and I have that identical card with stamp=no then there is a problem.
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March 12, 2023 08:57
Furthermore, there are new insights with regard to postal stationery, so I agree that the following field can be removed:
What conclusions have been drawn?
Can the "Preprinted Stamp" field really disappear?

why don't allow parts on postcard. Can there be a postmark?
This is a very far-reaching measure, with no added value for the Postcards section.
Postmarks are listed in the Other section.
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March 12, 2023 09:04
Each item may only be included once

I was shocked when I noticed that various postal stationery from the Belgian Congo are partly included in the stamps section and partly in the postcards section. Certain for more than 10 years.
In the postcards section I have put the name of the series as stated in the stamps section at the time of issue.

1912 Illustrated Postcards - Series 1
1922 Illustrated Postcards - Series 2

But ... that's not how you get them together, of course.

Perhaps additional programming is required to see 'issue' (Stamps) and 'series' (Postcards) together when you click on the issue/series?

Most were also assigned to 2 countries/territories. Cards from 1912 and 1922!

Thanks to Guido for making it right everywhere. Our Patriotic History should not (yet) be rewritten.

It doesn't work that way either way. Then I think to myself: over to 'personal tool'. Also for postal stationery. And Post Stationery belongs to the main part of 'Stamps'...
Even postal stationery without a postcard ( #5545867 ) will be included in the postcards section. It is not a craft or cardboard philately!
Can we put the entire stamp section there right away? After all, a stamp is a Postcard without a postcard, and without a card.
The already provided field 'Pre-printed stamp': Yes, and an extra field 'Without card': yes. Dissolved.
It has been thought about, but in a way that is strange to me.
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March 12, 2023 11:09
Each item may only be included once
If items such as #3975489 belong in the postcard section, then all maximum cards (also from the Netherlands !, Liechtenstein , France , ...) must be moved to the postcard section.

This concerns cardboard philately (made work) based on a postcard, and I can understand that they are placed in the postcards section. Administrators are also available there to check the catalog numbers, supplement them, review them and prevent duplicates.

Advantage: one less Type/Sub-Type (of the production) to discuss on the stamp forum.

Urgently provide the catalog number boxes for NVPH, Michel, Yvert, Scott and SG. Or we lose a lot of information and search options.
Also a 'bridge', so that when you consult the 'Series' (in Postcards) or Issue (in Stamps) you see the items that belong to it. From stamp -> production (including maximum cards) or from production (maximum card) to issue (including stamp(s) and FDCs). Or we also lose that framing functionality.

It is only a matter of making a decision and dealing with the consequences: programming work and 'transfer' work. Including equalizing the countries/areas (because otherwise it won't work, of course). It's that simple.


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Morits
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March 12, 2023 11:22
Urgently provide the catalog number boxes for NVPH, Michel, Yvert, Scott and SG.

Or urgently enable a link to a specific item in the short term, in this case the relevant stamp in the stamp section. I don't think it makes much sense to turn the postcards section into a stamp section as well.
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March 12, 2023 11:30
This #4348299 why not move to stamp? There is a stamp on it.

Or will I now also get an nvph number in my section?
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