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July 07, 2022 09:01
Dick52
Bee #2834719 some things are right and others are not.
First the guest artists can go, second the item comes from Spain and not from the UK.
Third at track A the Composer is Lou Handman and the Lyricist is Roy Turk.
Fourth at Track A is the Composers Francis Day & Hunter this is not part of it at all, this is a Music Publishing Company, founded by William Francis, James Francis, David Day and Harry Hunter.
Fifth at Track B, the Composer is Paul Evans and the Lyricist is Matt Williams.
You can now edit the item if you want.
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July 07, 2022 09:46
vertigo
This Topic is about Wishes for new fields in the Music section.
Now Collectioneur called a while back which new fields might need to be added, (can) be added, there are a few responded including me.
And in my opinion a few proposals are not bad at all.
But what happens now, almost all proposals are by the Music Administrators, I'll just say it as it is in the grounded with counter-arguments, as there are only a few thousand of them, who knows the names of the Band members who contributed to a record, you can't see this on the record etc.
You don't see this in other collecting areas very, a field is added there where maybe only a few hundred people fill in something.
I think Collectioneur in the Music section better not ask anything in the Community, but talk directly in the background with the Administrators about what they think about it, and in my opinion that is usually not much, better leave it like that as it is.

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July 07, 2022 09:57
Lyonesse

It is not the case that a wish automatically leads to implementation exactly the way you want it. More people think about it, including myself.

It is always a balance between specialists being able to enter information at the lowest level of detail, so that all exceptions are properly covered, and on the other hand On the other hand, the site remains attractive and understandable for large groups of people, both for looking up information and for entering information.

Having a lot of fields on each track can discourage importers, so we have to be a bit careful with that. And if a distinction between, in this case, composer and arranger is not entirely clear to many people and does not apply in most cases, then it is also well defensible to combine that so that you can enter several people in it and you can also search.
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July 07, 2022 14:10
Lyonesse
Bee
#2834719 some things are right and others are not.
First the guest artists can go, second the item comes from Spain and not from the UK.
Third at track A the Composer is Lou Handman and the Lyricist is Roy Turk.
Fourth at Track A is the Composers Francis Day & Hunter this is not part of it at all, this is a Music Publishing Company, founded by William Francis, James Francis, David Day and Harry Hunter.
Fifth at Track B, the Composer is Paul Evans and the Lyricist is Matt Williams.
You can now edit the item if you want.

I was concerned with this case to indicate that as a guest artist, the main artist guest artist must be an empty field!
Which just makes tracks more readable for me

And of course you could have adjusted this item if you see any mistakes
It then also becomes clear that the fourth scan of label A would also have provided more clarity?
(But that's coming)
To be honest, I don't immediately see where you get Spain from.
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July 07, 2022 16:45
Dick52
I've edited the item #2834719.
It's from Spain you can see with this item when you look at the A side above Elvis Presley looks, there standing in an arc with white letters read from the left, TM(S) Marca(S) Registrada(S)
This stands for Spain.
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July 07, 2022 21:03
Lyonesse 
I didn't know that last one unfortunately the A side of the label is not shown
But just assume it has the same mention
I'll put this under details
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July 09, 2022 10:11
Dick52 Lyonesse 
Elvis' single was produced in the UK. TM(S) Marca(S) Registrada(S) only means that the Trademark has been captured (registered). So it's a right thing. Above this line is Manufactured By RCA Unlimited England. All 1977 reprints are on orange labels. The B-side states the same. I don't believe these reprints were released in Spain. The original 1961 single with number RCA 1216 does.
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July 09, 2022 10:42
FransS
I found this in the Internet, it is RCA Victor RCA 2699 (RCA 1216)

On Label: "Manufactured by RCA Limited, England from master recordings of RCA Records. TM( s) ® Marca (s) Registrada (s). Used by authority of RCA Corporation." The words "Marca Registrada" are the only proof that this is a Spanish release, unless it is a South-American version.

I can't say any more than that.
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July 09, 2022 10:54
Lyonesse FransS 
I also read the text at Discogs
I also came across singles with the same description but UK,
What Frans also indicated repressing UK!

In my view that is also the reason that we should not just accept something from the net
You can use it as a tool


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July 09, 2022 11:15
Dick52
I don't think there are stupid guys behind the scenes at Discogs,
They write yes, The words "Marca Registrada" are the only proof that this is a Spanish release.
But if you Admins are convinced that it is an English version, then one of you can still change the Item, fine for me, nothing to worry about. This concerns 1 Item (and also not the easiest item) there can sometimes go wrong subconsciously.
I am only a little bit against the development where it has been consciously chosen that it must go wrong, in other words one thing Arranger and Composer together in a field.
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July 09, 2022 13:55
On Label: "Manufactured by RCA Limited, England from master recordings of RCA Records. TM(s) ® Marca (s) Registrada (s). Used by authority of RCA Corporation." The words "Marca Registrada" are the only proof that this is a Spanish release, unless it is a South-American version.



Not everything in Discogs is true. The above quote is sloppy to say the least, because Mexico has been forgotten ('South America' should have been 'Latin America'). I even suspect that Mexico was the largest market of all Spanish-speaking countries (large country, nice and close). On American RCA records, the mentions about the trademark are often included in 2 languages (English and Spanish). The same also applies to RCA records, which were produced in Spain.

Why does this record, made in the UK, only have Spanish text? I can't answer this question, but it could just be a copying error (using the US version as an example)..
If it was indeed a Spanish release I would expect more Spanish mentions on the cover and label .




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July 09, 2022 18:47
Lyonesse 
But the question of whether it is a release for the Spanish market is of course irrelevant to the LastDodo catalog, because the catalog has to enter the country of manufacture. Not Spain, but UK.

I'm just a bit apprehensive about the development where it was deliberately chosen to go wrong, in name just one thing Arranger and Composer together in one field.

In fact, something has been realized that you have longed for for a while. You can enter the arranger, that possibility now exists. Sometimes innovations are not carried out exactly the way you want them to. If you don't like that, maybe you should start your own site. Then you can furnish it according to your own idea.

About ten years ago I asked for an input field for the designer of the cover, because I felt that the designer is essential in some cases. I believe that no one really agreed with me and so it was canceled at the time. I could have continued to sulk for 10 years, but I entered the designer in Specials where appropriate.
In the meantime, an input field for the cover design has been introduced and I am very happy with it. The catalog is far from perfect, but I still have fun with it.

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July 09, 2022 19:54
vertigo 
I've already resigned myself, I just don't fill in Arrangers anymore and especially not with the Composers, it's not that difficult.
I'm currently working with the Producers on the Singles, is not ideal for him to be there, but better than nothing, because a Producer remains a Producer.
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July 09, 2022 21:23
But the question of whether it is a release for the Spanish market is of course irrelevant to the LastDodo catalog, because the country of manufacture must be entered in the catalog. Not Spain, but UK.

I'm still thinking about this. It also seems valuable to me to also record the country where the record / CD was distributed and sold. It usually determines certain texts and the rights organization (Stemra in the Netherlands, GEMA in Germany, etc.). This makes it an important point to recognize the item, I think.

Perhaps it is also an idea to call the rights organization ( rights society) as a field?
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July 09, 2022 21:27
I've already resigned myself to it, I just don't fill in any more Arrangers and especially not the Composers, it's not that difficult.
I am currently working with the Producers on the Singles, it is not ideal that he is there, but better than nothing, because a Producer remains a Producer.

On Wikipedia I read about arranger:

Many compositions are arranged and orchestrated by the composer himself. Especially in light music , the arranger is also present during the recordings in the studio and thus also fulfills the duties of the producer .

These roles are therefore often close to each other. I understand that it's not ideal for you, but you can now always lose all people involved in these roles with an item.


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July 09, 2022 22:33
I'm still thinking about this. It also seems valuable to me to also record the country where the record / CD was distributed and sold. It usually determines certain texts and the rights organization (Stemra in the Netherlands, GEMA in Germany, etc.). This makes it an important point to recognize the item, I think.

 Rene 
It is undoubtedly valuable information, but I fear it is more difficult to determine than the country of manufacture (was that why the latter was chosen at the time?).
To start with, not every record lists a rights organization. And I'm pretty sure that the listed rights organization is not always consistent with the organization in the country of distribution.

The language of the texts and a possibly deviating cover design are of course good indications and there is also a lot to be found on the internet, but know that it is not so easy to determine.

It might also be an idea to include the rights organization (rights society) as a field?

Rene 
I wouldn't. I don't think it has any added value. And if good images have been entered, then the rights organization is also easy to read.


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July 09, 2022 23:21
They write yes, The words "Marca Registrada" are the only proof that this is a Spanish release.
I have already seen a Canadian and a German pressing with the Spanish text. Just take a look at this single Who is really German ;-)
I had already edited the item.
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July 10, 2022 11:54
FransS 
I totally agree with you: it's not a Spanish release. But the text of the German picture is not exactly the same. It also says 'trademark owner RCA Corporation' and 'TM(S) ® reg.' on. The UK plate reads 'TM(s) ®' + the Spanish-language entry.

It might also be an idea to include the rights organization (rights society) as a field?

Rene 
Now that I've thought about it, I may have reacted too quickly. In principle, any attribute can help identify an item, including the rights organization. I would have to do further research for a definitive answer. I am also curious what others think of this idea.
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July 10, 2022 13:21
vertigo 
At the back of the German single is also TM(S) reg. Marca(s) Registrada(s). I also come across the same Spanish mention on (American) Columbia singles. It has nothing to do with the country the singles were pressed in, but it is capturing the name in multiple languages. I think you are right about the fact that in America they also took Spanish-speaking countries into account.

You could include rights organizations such as Stemra, Gema, Sabam etc. as a field. With "standard" singles they help to determine the country of release. It gets a bit more difficult with export singles. so it is not saving grace. I often came across the German Gema at Philips singles pressed in Turkey (no export by the way).
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July 10, 2022 21:53
FransS
Advancing insight: essentially 'TM(s) ®' is a shortened version of 'trademark registered', so it is also on the UK plate in 2 languages. Nothing more to add about this.

Rene 
As far as the rights organization as an input field is concerned, I agree with what Frans says about it.

By the way, are you thinking of a free input field or should it be a field with some choices?



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July 10, 2022 21:59
vertigo 
Yep. Case closed ;-)

I would imagine a field with a dropdown menu. With a free field you get capital letters, small letters, points etc. in the same names.
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July 11, 2022 10:08
I would think a field with a dropdown menu. With a free field you get capital letters, small letters, points etc. in the same names.

I thought of that too. The point is that I often see combinations of rights organizations on my records (eg because it is a European pressing). Then it should at least be a multiple field. The advantage of the dropdown is that you can filter on it (very important), the disadvantage is that you cannot indicate it exactly as it is stated on a plate, etc. FransS vertigo 
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July 11, 2022 11:59
Rene vertigo 
It is possible, just like with genre, to make it so that two or more can be entered?
 disadvantage is that you cannot specify it exactly as it is stated on a plate, etc.
Unfortunately this already applies to a number of fields. Just think of labels or even artists (Clapton, Eric vs Ericd Clapton). So I wouldn't take that too seriously.
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July 11, 2022 15:07
It is possible, just like with genre, to make it so that two or more can be entered?

Yes, it is certainly possible FransS  That's what I meant by "multiple field".
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July 11, 2022 15:21
Rene 
Ah, okay. That was not clear to me ;-)
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