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  • 171 messages
  • March 07, 2023 13:01
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March 07, 2023 13:01
When two things are merged I see that the item I owned, with my own photos, virtually disappears from my collection if that was the duplicate item.

If I pay close attention I might see one or more of the items in my collection marked as a duplicate before it actually disappears. However, the chances are very likely that I don't see that. it can take years, so to speak, before I notice that something is no longer there.

I also had the same problem when someone marked an item as illegal or wrong group. There is absolutely no way to find out what it was. Frustration everywhere because I have nothing to act on.

Requests:
- Automatic notification to owners of an item that will be merged/deleted with the information of the item before it was merged - saves the administrator further actions and allows the owner to act
- Automatic migration of ownership including photos, comments, date of purchase, etc. to the new item - if the owner is happy to see the item migrated, they don't have to do anything else
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  • Catalogue administrator
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  • March 07, 2023 13:47
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March 07, 2023 13:47
portbetaald
1.
1.a. Those who add a new item and did not search properly (doubling) will bear the consequences. Those who add excessive duplications will even be (temporarily) blocked from adding further on LD.
1.b. There are a number of dutiful users who check every day in the new additions what was already in it, and should be removed as duplicates. There is not much chance that someone has included the item in their collection in the meantime. The title was changed fairly quickly to 'DOUBLURE van ...'. Who will include it in his collection afterwards ...
1.c. There has been a period when the new supply was not so closely monitored. Existing items, sometimes present for 8 years or more, turn out to be duplications. those who include such an existing item in their collection may have paid less attention. But it happens (me too). That is a pity, but it was a double. Processing: see '2.'

2.
Duplicates are merged by the main administrator. Then your choice remains in your collection (although it depends on a different LD id).
Only if an item is not in use, or only in use by the ADDER himself, a regular administrator can delete the item. Then it is not merged. -> see 1.a.

3.
An item that has been added, and is not valid according to the handbook (e.g. a series of Maximum cards, a series of FDCs, an incomplete sheet, an incomplete series, ...), is added according to the same principles as '2.' incorporated.
Since it is not a duplication, but an invalid item, it is merged with the item 'DELETE'.
You can check for yourself how much you have the DELETE item in your collection, search list or shop.
Adding prohibited items to the catalogue: then you have not read the handbook properly.
Include prohibited items in your collection: ditto.

Those who have the item DELETE 50 times in their collection should read the manual 50 times.

Conclusion:
Only if you are the cause of the duplication or invalid addition, and the item is not in use by anyone else, it can happen that something disappears from your collection. Usually this is very soon after adding.

As soon as someone (other) is attached to it (collection, search list, shop), a duplicate is merged with the oldest item present. An invalid entry is merged with the DELETE entry.
Nothing is lost.

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az60
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March 07, 2023 15:22
portbetaald
I completely agree with you.
I have therefore regularly indicated that LastDodo is not suitable for keeping track of your stamp collection. For example, there are now dozens of stamps in my collection that I do not own and there are dozens of stamps that I do not have in my collection. And they were indeed entered correctly. No, the cause is the cating over of stamps. Type A has suddenly become type B or C. And many thousands of items have been converted. This has really taken off, especially after the crusade against the basic stamp.
The handbook is clear:
Changes that are never allowed:
• It is never allowed to make changes that make the item in question a different item or that make it a different version, edition, edition or variant of the item.
Unfortunately, with the exception of a few, the administrators hardly pay any attention to this. If this is checked consistently, then there would be no problem. The seal you have remains the seal you have. And if an item has to disappear from the catalogue, then as a collector of that item to be removed, you should receive a message.
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  • 171 messages
  • March 07, 2023 16:37
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March 07, 2023 16:37
If, in the best of intentions, I enter an item that later turns out to be duplicates, then I also expect that upon detection it will be merged and not just my input deleted. So I expect to be merged, or at least to be notified of what it should have been so that I can link my item to the correct one with all the metadata for the collection item. Because the latter is also just a lot of work and requires re-scanning, for example, merging while preserving metadata is simply more "practical".

If the merge process is a lot of work or impossible for an administrator and disapprovals are not, then maybe that needs to be worked on? I don't deliberately enter duplicates either, but because things are sometimes entered quite untraceably, it happens to me yes, or because LD tightens its entry rules. Perhaps you can even consider having items removed by the importer if there is no shop/wish list/collector attached to it and that happens within a day. That would take care of most of the "oops" moments.

Look, if you have three stamps in your collection, then you can think "that will sort itself out" but with thousands of items and hours of scanning and entering over the last 10 weekends because LD just doesn't have most of the items, we really need to help each other out a bit. I know that the administrator flush is a bit thin, but rejecting imports and further wishing the importer good luck, I don't get such a warm feeling.
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  • 2,571 messages
  • March 07, 2023 16:41
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March 07, 2023 16:41
I have already argued that duplicates should be lumped together in the catalogue, so that everyone can remove and re-insert their seals, and if a duplicate is empty then remove it. that is also much less work for Daan in terms of moving.
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  • Catalogue administrator
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  • March 07, 2023 17:23
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March 07, 2023 17:23
To freeze.
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March 07, 2023 17:37
portbetaald
If you are the importer yourself, and no one else is connected to it, an ordinary administrator can delete the item. In that (standard) process a message is provided to the importer.

Usually I first send a message with 'what's the difference?' (sometimes I also look over it) and the request to give a signal when it has been 'rectified'.
For users who enter incorrectly, and where there appear to be many duplications, I only give the message that there will be a block (to protect both the user and the administrator against wasting time). Then a guidance process starts. It is better to invest time and energy in the re-education process than to keep chasing after the facts.

Only in the latter case are there items that disappear without much explanation. But you don't belong to that group.

If you are not the importer, you depend on someone else's item. Only the super admin of the category can make that disappear. As explained, this is via 'merge'.

It therefore seems impossible to me that items 'unseen' disappear from your collection.
In one case a message is provided, in the other case you depend on the oldest item (or the DELETE item if it was an invalid item). The oldest item is often enriched with data contained in the duplication (if not present in that oldest item).

az60 Your collection doesn't decrease with a flipped item either. That is the big problem in the stamp category. The traces can be found in the history, but it is not known of the users who are attached to them, based on which data (before or after the conversion) they have indicated the item in their collection or wish list.
A problem therefore arises when determining conversion. The collectors, providers and seekers should be able to receive a message there, after which the item should be removed in my opinion. You can no longer straighten the casing. Unless there is a very short response when reviewing. This is the case for a number of countries/areas ... for the most part not. It might be an idea to give the lanes/areas that have been maintained a recognizable 'green badge'. Countries/territories with outstanding changes (that have not yet been reviewed) from, for example, the year 2011 have a 'red ball'.

What happens now with such items is a gray zone.
But I don't think it's thousands of items. Casing occasionally pops up, but is rather the exception. It's a big problem, but rather limited.
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  • Catalogue administrator
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  • March 07, 2023 19:55
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March 07, 2023 19:55
To freeze.
That will be difficult, because then only the super administrator can 'unfreeze'. It will need an army of secretaries to keep up with all the requests ...
When should you freeze? Every time again, and then unfreeze - adjust - freeze again?
There are so many fields that are constantly changing (replenishing) in the Stamps section for each item.
One fills in a catalog value unused, the other fills in with a catalog code for Yvert, then there is someone who knows quite well what the perforation is (using a digital perforation meter), then someone who knows something about the watermark, then someone wants that the color 'RedBrown' is changed to 'BrownRed', ...
There are administrators and users who limit themselves solely to 'Nominal value', others work systematically around 'Title' (linguistic aspect), still others are mainly concerned with 'Theme', ...
A system like the price suggestions (for communicating changes) would be a solution, but that system has already proven to be unworkable. At least in the stamp section. Then certain changes/additions would only end up in the catalog after 12 years.
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  • Catalogue manager
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  • March 07, 2023 20:29
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March 07, 2023 20:29
That will be difficult, because then only the super administrator can 'unfreeze'. It will need an army of secretaries to keep up with all the requests ...

I think admins can also unfreeze an item, not just super admins. It is difficult for me to check myself, but please confirm or deny that administrators can remove the blue check mark from a "frozen" item and place it again afterwards.
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Morits
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March 07, 2023 20:37
Collectioneur
Any admin can...
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March 07, 2023 20:55
Morits
Thanks for the confirmation.
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March 07, 2023 20:56
A (long) time ago I had clicked the wrong button for an item (Review and Freeze instead of Review) before adjusting. Postmaster then had to help me out. Maybe I wasn't an administrator back then, but a partial administrator...
Now I have tested that again (with a Maximum card) and apparently I can still change it as an administrator afterwards.

Wondering if Sub admins MennoGo or Users az60 can also change the item ( #9385247 ) or not (just see if the input fields are open for editing, without changing anything).

Still, I don't think 'freezing' is really a good solution. Then all requests to change an item will be forwarded to administrators via private messages... It's going to be a nightmare.
It's not about dozens a day, but hundreds (and more). Then we won't have a Wiki anymore. And administrators become data typists. 'I can already see the requests pouring in: 'For the stamps of issues XXXXX, yyyyyyyyy and ZZZZZZZZ you can type + save + review as dimensions 33 x 45 mm'.

And that's mainly because in the stamp section almost no field is required to be filled in. As a result, a lot of nudity flows in, which, over the years following the addition, are dressed up little by little. You don't put a naked item in the freezing cold :)

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  • Catalogue administrator
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  • March 07, 2023 21:06
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March 07, 2023 21:06
As a user, you can no longer edit the frozen fields Raoul62 . A very good thing this development.
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March 07, 2023 21:14
Charles1971
And then you become the first to forward hundreds of emails with change requests to administrators? :)

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  • Catalogue administrator
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March 07, 2023 21:17
Collectioneur
But ... after this test ... how do I 'unfreeze' that item?

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  • Catalogue administrator
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  • March 07, 2023 21:19
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March 07, 2023 21:19
Raoul62 as (partial) administrator I could change the item. Despite the warning at the top that I wouldn't be able to :-). If all goes well, the field 'displayed on stamp' should now say test.

I don't see any added value in the freeze functionality either.
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March 07, 2023 21:19
Raoul62 Still, if the details are correct, there's really no need to request changes.
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  • March 07, 2023 21:20
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March 07, 2023 21:20
When freezing you don't have to freeze all fields. Just make sure that the fields identifying a seal are frozen. And then you come back with that's all the fields. I think a few fields could be frozen so that the seal is recognizable. And that leaves plenty for users to mess with.
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March 07, 2023 21:21
But ... after this test ... how do I 'freeze' that item now

Change item, uncheck at the bottom.
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az60
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March 07, 2023 21:48
Wondering if Sub-Administrators MennoGo or Users az60 the item ( #9385247 ) can also be changed
Item is still frozen. All empty fields can still be modified. This also applies to the month and day fields, despite the fact that something has been entered there. Theme/motif can be supplemented as well as existing themes removed.
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  • Catalogue administrator
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  • March 07, 2023 21:51
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March 07, 2023 21:51
Yes! I found the check mark (was well hidden).
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  • 171 messages
  • March 07, 2023 22:27
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March 07, 2023 22:27
The discussion goes into a little detail. In any case, I would greatly appreciate not losing any more items because inputs are removed instead of merged while preserving metadata.

I would also greatly appreciate it if each user could delete their own entry within a certain period of time as long as there is no shop/owner/wish list associated with it. This makes it possible within limits to correct your own mistakes and saves everyone time.

If it does have to be removed in certain cases, then as an importer, owner or shop owner I want to know what it was and not be saddled with a REMOVED bulk item without background or an http 404. If I don't know what it was I just can't take proper action.
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  • Catalogue manager
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  • March 08, 2023 08:08
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March 08, 2023 08:08
And that's mainly because in the stamp section almost no field is required to be filled in. As a result, a lot of nudity flows in, which, over the years following the addition, are dressed up little by little. You don't put a naked item in the freezing cold :)
Apart from the mandatory image, Stamps has 4 "mandatory" input fields. Comics, for example, has 3. Mandatory input is only possible for those fields where (almost) everyone can know what should be entered. For example, not everyone owns a perforation gauge, so this field cannot be required.
FYI: You can indicate per field whether it is "mandatory" and/or it can be "frozen". This is separate.

MennoGo
as (partial) administrator I could change the item. Despite the warning at the top that I wouldn't be able to :-). If all goes well, the field 'displayed on stamp' should now say test.
As long as nothing is filled in, an empty field can always be filled in. After that it may be frozen (if the check has been set by an administrator).

I don't see any added value in the freeze functionality either.
In the past, more than nowadays, we had a lot of trouble with people who kept changing an item, despite an administrator always disapproving it. You can prevent this in the most important fields by freezing if necessary. But this should be applied with caution, because if almost all items are frozen, it is demotivating for collectors to want to help improve the catalog slightly. You also say that you have little confidence in the ordinary user.

portbetaald
If it does have to be removed in certain cases, then as an importer, owner or shop owner I want to know what it was and not be saddled with a REMOVED bulk item without background or an http 404. If I don't know what it was I just can't take proper action.
If an item needs to be merged with a so-called "DELETE" item, the super admins must send a notice to all involved (collectors, shops and searchers).
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  • 171 messages
  • March 25, 2023 07:40
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March 25, 2023 07:40
I think this suggestion is still open. I recovered another duplicate of my own yesterday by just making it a totally different stamp that I still had to enter. Also works but produces strange history.



I would also greatly appreciate it if each user could delete their own entry within a certain period of time as long as there is no shop/owner/wish list associated with it. This makes it possible within limits to correct your own mistakes and saves everyone time.

Then this will not have happened with the item in my collection that was set to delete:


If an item needs to be merged with a so-called "DELETE" item, the super admins must send a notice to all involved (collectors, shops and searchers).


And I don't think I'm alone when you look at the numbers on that item:
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  • Catalogue administrator
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  • March 25, 2023 09:31
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March 25, 2023 09:31
I recovered another duplicate of my own yesterday by just making it a totally different stamp that I still had to enter. Also works but produces strange history.
Repacking items is not recommended. If you are the only collector, as you say, this gives a strange history, if there are several collectors, this is not done.
You follow the standard procedure for duplication or in case of serious problems you report it on the forum or send a PM to an administrator.
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