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March 06, 2023 21:28
#555147 and #555149 have the same (identical) image.
I think there is more than enough evidence that images were played a trick on by certain importers (CAR :)) long ago.
I don't think you can tell now, based on the image on LD, whether the image shown was torn from a fluorescent booklet?

Ditto for #555139 and #555141 .
Who knows how many dozens, hundreds or thousands of combinations are duplicated in the catalogue?
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  • March 07, 2023 10:12
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March 07, 2023 10:12
All LD numbers below 2,555,000 are "suspicious" by definition. In my opinion, the reason for this is the fact that the database was started as a sales aid, so without the ideals on which LastDodo is based.
The images will probably(?) be your own images, but the data has probably been adjusted for trade. Count in thousands
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March 07, 2023 12:11
Something has to be done with it… but what?
The original images are identical, the detail contains different specifications each time.

1. Keep one and remove the other?
2. Keep both and get rid of the image with one?
3. Send both to the trash?
4. Gesturing ace of curves and leaving all that junk in the catalog?

'4' is not an option for me. Then I think it will stop.
'1' is difficult: how can you measure the fluorine ... with a lamp on your screen with the image on it? (question that needs no answer, just to be clear).
'2' then we'll make even more odious items without images (and there are already so many of them...).
'3' solves the problem completely. But then don't merge with the 'DELETE' item! That item is already bursting at the seams.

I wonder if DAV O has always provided 2 sets of preprint sheets: combinations from booklets that do not contain fluorine, and combinations from booklets that do contain fluorine.
Anyone who collects both MNH and canceled ... has ... an expensive hobby :)

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March 07, 2023 12:13
A happy accident: it concerns the Dutch stamps (combinations from booklets). As a result, there are many users on LD who can help with this problem.
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March 07, 2023 15:44
I have a Davo album with pages ZAU4 normal paper and ZAU5 for Phosphorescent paper, does this information help? and is it perhaps an option to switch from the phosphor z
hedgehogs and combination to take a picture under the fluorine lamp as I photographed it.
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az60
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March 07, 2023 16:05
Who knows how many dozens, hundreds or thousands of combinations are duplicated in the catalogue?
I've stated many times before that the images are not determinative. Those are the descriptions. And they seem to be correct. The C51f and C53f are on phosphorescent paper. The C51 and C53 are not defined by paper type. That could mean it was a base seal. Collectors without a phosphor lamp could still enter their stamp. It may also mean that C51 and C53 stood for plain paper, as deer2 later corrected. But at least the basic input is correct.
Whether the images are correct is a more difficult question. I can't tell if the seals are phosphorescent or not. You often can't check images and therefore you have to be guided by the description.
It is clear that Collect-A-Rom has used identical or deliberately incorrect images. But that means the only action is to reject or replace the wrong image. If you are going to reject well-described items based on (probably) wrong images, then I think the damage is many times greater.
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  • March 07, 2023 16:25
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March 07, 2023 16:25
What do people sometimes do so terribly difficult here, the similar-looking picture is mainly used because the stamps are also the same, you cannot see through the screen that the stamp is phosphorus or fluorine or normal, so the picture does not matter in that respect .
it mainly concerns the information that is meant. so that all the stamps are in the catalog that are there.
in terms of image there will be no difference at all. so what are you fussing about?
it's also a free choice to change the image for everyone, but then you don't know what you'll get, in my opinion this can only make the catalog worse.
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March 07, 2023 18:09
An item cannot appear twice on LD. And certainly not in the same category.
The item = what is shown, with the description in detail.
Here both items (the image) show the same thing (the same scan was used).
One scan, 2 items???
Well, this way you can fill a lot of gaps on LD in the stamp catalog. Always with the same image. If only there was a picture.

An image like MOOI-HE would really make it clear that these are different items.
But the same seal (here 'combination from booklet') cannot be both 'phosphorescent' and 'non-phosphorescent' at the same time.
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March 07, 2023 19:01
Raoul62 you're being difficult, you're making something a problem, and this isn't it.
as an example: three seals are described, one with phosphorus, one with normal and one with fluorine.
all these stamps look the same, if we are talking about images.
so in that sense it doesn't matter if one image is used.
everyone is free to post their own image if it shows that they can show the difference with the right detail as MOOI-HE suggests.
who is going to do this?
who can do it?
there is no point in placing another image, because the differences in details will not cause a lot of stamps to disappear. all those stamps just exist.
all you can do is remove the image, but why? the same seal must come back again.
and why the same stamp, because it does not show whether this is phosphorus, fluorine or normal.
this is only visible when you work with UV image, and we don't work with that.
and not everyone is called a UV short or long wave lamp, and they can't do anything with that kind of UV images.
By the way, these used double images are mainly used to support the detail. no more or less.




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March 07, 2023 19:41
No, aartinge, that's not difficult.
The general handbook states on p. 13, very clear, black and white, for EVERYONE:
"It is also not allowed to 'reuse' images from the catalog for the entry of new items."

And that did happen here. Even with multiple items.
Hypocrisy of absolute equality for all users unless…

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" (George Orwell)? We all learned in high school. The older generation anyway (vwb that 'learning').
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  • March 07, 2023 20:29
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March 07, 2023 20:29
Raoul62 Now take a good look when those duplicate images were posted, all in the early days, at #555149 in 2009
and when is this The general handbook entry on p. 13, entered? I don't see it anywhere.

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March 07, 2023 21:02
If a rule is included in a handbook, it must be followed. Also to the past. Otherwise you won't waste paper and ink on it (not even digitally).
In any case, the rule dates from before my time. So at least 2.5 years old :)
If you can now tell me which items are subject to the rules and which are not (or which importers are, and which are not) ... it might become clearer? Because that's not included.
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March 07, 2023 22:26
Raoul62 the inputs include Collect-A-ROM , and if I assume that line that I don't read anywhere has been added from 2021, then you have to reject those old inputs with retroactive effect.
but there are people hanging on it, and where do you put those people with those specific characteristics of that seal,
it's like looking at coffee grounds what you want to do about this, wait until someone posts the right image?
while the image is the same. nor is it torn out of a booklet to be placed here.
And who came up with this rule, when all those duplicate images have been in the catalog for years, and no one has ever objected.
you can of course look for the original booklet and cut out that combination.
it's impossible and it doesn't change the item, just the image.
but again i don't read that line anywhere.
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  • March 07, 2023 22:47
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March 07, 2023 22:47
At the back is what was changed and when. Point 5.1 has never been changed, and I believe it has been present since the first version (2014) of the handbook.
Almost 10 years.

And that line is on p. 13:

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March 07, 2023 23:04
If a rule is included in a handbook, it must be followed. Also to the past.
Please stop your new crusade. You're seriously missing the point and you're about to wreak havoc on the catalog. If you do refer to the handbook, you must do so properly. And not selectively, please. You systematically ignore the following rule from the basic manual:
Lastdodo strives to include and describe all the different variants of collectable objects.
So describe. There is no looking at the picture. And there are many fields at our disposal. Perforation, gum, luminescence, references to other catalogues, issue date, themes and motifs. And the image is just one of many ways to describe a seal. The picture is only a small part of the description. So by assigning an added value to the image above the description, you are missing the point.
The general handbook states on p. 13, very clear, black and white, for EVERYONE:
"It is also not allowed to 'reuse' images from the catalog for the entry of new items."
Yes, but where is the consequence mentioned. Tell me where it says to remove those items from the catalog? That's just your own interpretation, based on nothing. In addition, you also do not know whether LastDodo has approved the entry of CAR, including any errors. But again, that's irrelevant. The point is that only 1 of the fields has been entered incorrectly. Is your next step that all entered stamps with a mistake must be removed. Stay consistent, you know. No, this concerns incorrectly entered data in the image field. Consciously or unconsciously is irrelevant. What is relevant is improving the only flaw: the image. MOOI-HE indicates how. And fortunately the manual does state that incorrect input can be corrected:
The catalog works according to a wiki principle. The person who first enters a certain object in the catalog sometimes does not have all the information about that object. Others can supplement or improve that information in the catalog .
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March 07, 2023 23:12
point 4. so
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March 07, 2023 23:15
Raoul62 is this your own manual, mine is 3.8 and only has 18 pages
i don't have 5.1
see here:
5. Issue First fill in the year, then one space. After this you preferably do not start with a number, so preferably not Manual Stamps 3.8 8 1937 1st Soviet Architectural Congress (this does not read well) but: 1937 First Soviet Architectural Congress For long-running series of which the stamps must be placed together as a series, you only fill in one year in the year in which the first stamp of the series was issued. Administrators can change issue titles to make the catalog more organized.
6. Sequence Number in Issue
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March 07, 2023 23:23
Basic Handbook , Art. Not the stamp handbook.
Basic handbook according to Raoul, first version: January 2014
Seals #555147 and #555149 , #555139 and #555141 . introduced in 2009.
I rest my case.
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March 07, 2023 23:23
Collectioneur how come I have a handbook 3.8 with 18 pages and Raoul62 shows me one with 25 pages?

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  • March 07, 2023 23:33
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March 07, 2023 23:33
az60 and where is it? I don't know that one at all
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March 07, 2023 23:35
az60 I already downloaded it, don't care where it is anymore.
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March 08, 2023 07:34
For others who search: Basic Manual in the central place, via the Forum 'LastDodo site & app' / Sticky: Manuals and settings of filters and sorts, etc.


The basic manual contains rules and agreements that apply to all sections. Each section may have its own handbook, which is supplementary (and more specific). The basic manual takes precedence, of course.
Maybe you've never read aartinge ?

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  • March 08, 2023 08:29
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March 08, 2023 08:29
This is apparently one of those discussions that will never end, because everyone is somewhat right.
- It is true that images have been reused in the past.
- It is true that custom images are required these days.

It has no real added value now to ruthlessly delete all images reused in the past. These old images should be replaced with the correct images.
Such reused images must be rejected for new imports.
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March 08, 2023 12:23
Raoul62 I've dug into it, and to my surprise I've come to the conclusion that there's only one captain at the helm, and that's the Handbook of Stamps. which contains no reference at all to the Basic Manual.
Each section has its own manual according to the Handbook. It was not made that way for nothing.
Boeken has a basic handbook of 25 pages with, at point 5, part Images.
Platen has a Handbook of 23 pages with, at point 16, part Images
and Postage Stamps has an 18-page manual with point 18 images
Conclusion: if you make a Basic handbook, it should be the same for each section.
there are no references from the Basic Manual to the underlying manuals.
Each handbook in a Section is also set up differently and applies from 2009 to the present.
And it cannot be the case that there are 2 books with different rules of the game Hanboek+Basisboek
And I've never seen the Basic Book either, I don't know where it is yet. downloaded for the first time yesterday.
as far as I saw, the backroom basic handbook was created in 2014. and if it contains applicable rules, then they should also have been clearly included in the handbook on stamps and other sections.
It is not for nothing that the manuals that are not identical are listed in the different sections. and those are the applicable rules so far. or do people have to walk back and forth from one handbook to another.
the difference is that one handbook is allowed to do something, and the other is not allowed.
how do you think
1 Captain and not 2
az60 Collectioneur


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March 08, 2023 13:46
Collectioneur
Good (final) conclusion. I totally agree.
However, I continue to worry (maybe rightly so, maybe wrongly) about how imports are judged these days. The image is only 1 small part of an item's description. What matters is that all elements of the item's description are correct and that additions are in line with the original entry. You must therefore always follow the entire history of an item, from the first entry.
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