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Morits
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May 02, 2021 17:52
can anyone explain the difference between # 320651 and # 374369 , I really don't see it
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Morits
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May 02, 2021 18:09
I can see it now, thanks for the help :-)
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May 02, 2021 18:21
Yep, I know that too, from somewhere distant ... a story of an old philatelist.
The stamp was issued in 1935 (Yvert 299 / Michel 297 - blue).
The following year the stamp was reissued (Yvert 300 / Michel 316 - bright blue) due to the achievement of the 'blue ribbon' (speed record for one or another crossing, do not remember which one).
There was also a third edition (Yvert 300A, in a kind of blue-green), but it was never officially released (or put into use)
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Morits
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May 02, 2021 19:24
I have that third stamp that looks like blue-green with my drowsy eyes, I have to have it checked ...
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Morits
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May 02, 2021 19:26
Raoul62
but because I stamped it can never be blue-green ??
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May 02, 2021 20:48
Morits
I fear it. It was once made, but not published according to my sources.
However, according to Scott there would be even 4 different versions. Scott does not mention that there is an unpublished copy. SC 300 and 300a have certainly been issued and used. Sc 300b I think is Yt 300A and not issued. Sc 300c can be an example that has been in the sun for too long, on the rear shelf of a car during a heat wave, which also causes color differences :)


The rating in Scott 'hinged 'I also find it doubtful ... I have never seen a postage stamp hinged higher than a MNH copy. It's a Scott-s and skewed quotation.

In Michel I only find 2 (but I may have looked over it). These are the three according to Yvert:



The middle one is the normal 1935 issue (Yt 299), the bottom one the light blue one from 1936 (Yt 300), the top one the none -released version Yt 300A.

It is always possible that some nice person has put a stamp on it later, or had it set up. Unissued copies sometimes end up in the hands of sellers. As 'unpublished' they are not valid for postage, but who pays attention to this when stamping letters ... This happens often. Especially when it only concerns such a small color difference. Nevertheless, if it is that 'version' (blue-green), you have a gold nugget in your hands.
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Morits
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May 03, 2021 15:38
Raoul62
the term hinged, what is the exact meaning of it. Will mean something different in the stamp world than in the real world, I have the idea. Can guess but rather not
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May 03, 2021 16:39
Morits
I think that term means, never used, MNH
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May 03, 2021 17:32
Hinged = hinged (has indeed been 'hung', with adhesive).
MNH = MNH = Mint Never Hinged (no sticker). Original stamp as produced and sold.
Hinged is never mint.

Below some more background (for the enthusiast, or those who are not interested).

unused can be MH (Mint Hinged = with gum and trace of adhesive) or NM (No Mint, gum is gone). In the latter case, the stamp may have been used, but not canceled. Or the collector has soaked off the hinge sticker. Then, of course, the gum also disappears.
There are stamps that were produced without gum. Then MNH and unused are almost indistinguishable.
When stamped, it does not matter whether or not there is a trace of adhesive. However, a 'heavy sticker track' is not one of the favorites of a collector who exchanges or purchases stamps. Also traces of adhesive due to a confirmation with something other than stamp hinges (tape, gummed paper, ...) are not appreciated by the real collectors. Such a stamp has the condition 'damaged'. But that is not provided on LD.

LD also lacks a very important condition when it comes to stamps: CTO. Canceled to order. These are MNH stamps that were canceled before sale. With gum and stamp. But not used postally.
A commonly used method in Eastern Bloc countries and Arab states (1970s). The stamps were then packaged in different types of subscriptions: complete series (very expensive), series without the barrier value (the most expensive of the series) and incomplete series (several stamps from the series not included). Neat with gum and stamp straight from the factory.
There are collectors who get the curl from CTO. Because they consider them commercial knick-knacks. They are indeed stamps that were never produced for postal use, but only ended up directly in the commercial circuit.
On LD they are indicated as 'Stamped'. Which is not right at all. Stamped normally means: used with cancellation.
This can sometimes lead to heated discussions if you, as a seller, send 'CTO', and the buyer expects 'postally stamped'.
Also Dutch stamps that have deviated from a first day ticket, first day newspaper or FDC are actually 'CTO'. There is a stamp on it, but the stamps themselves never made it into the normal postal circuit. In fact, there are at least as many CTO stamps from the Netherlands as in the Eastern Bloc countries or Arab states. But over a much longer period of time :)
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June 18, 2021 06:36
Where or with whom can I have French stamps checked for authenticity and who will also provide a certificate of authenticity.
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June 18, 2021 08:27
According to Yvert there are even FOUR colors, just like according to Scott:
299 (dark) blue = #374369
300 light(er) blue = #320651
300b Turquoise = #7183163
300A Green Blue (not on LD, not issued)

Determining the difference between 300b, 300A or a discolored 300 is indeed tricky.


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June 18, 2021 23:24
wilfredb 
So also 4 according to Yvert. Then I'll have to look again in the Michel, because I only found 2 there.
BTholen 
I think a good philatelic shop can help you with estimating.
A real estimate of a stamp, with certificate of authenticity, you pay something for that. You don't do that for regular stamps, only for (presumed) masterpieces. Such a masterpiece with an official certificate of authenticity will yield a lot more than the usual 10 to 20% CV at a large (good) philatelic auction.
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June 19, 2021 01:58
Stanley Gibbons also mentions four different colours :

First issue on 1935.04.23 :

- n° 526 : indigo

Second issue on 1936.05.26 : 

- n° 526a : light blue

- n° 526b : turquoise ;

- n° 526c : blue green.

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June 19, 2021 10:01
Thx Loriot
More information again.
So there should be more clarity about this release in one way or another.

And there are still so many to find out. So plenty to do.
These are the fun questions.

wilfredb 
Can you also mention the French color names from Yvert, without translating?
That might also create some clarity on how the different catalogs designate the colours. It's not always consistent in the catalogs themselves, I've noticed.
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June 19, 2021 12:43
Briefly summarized for issue 1935 Passenger ship "Normandie":



#374369 is wrong regarding the teeth, unless (due to rounding differences) the catalogs Yt and SG contradict this. For the exact color I would omit the (neutral) 'blue'.
For all three items, pricing on LD is due for revision.
For current stamps, a seller never reaches 5%. They can be happy if a current stamp is sold (because most of them already own it).
A less common stamp sometimes gets between 10 and 20% of what the paper catalogs would have us believe what the value is.
The info 'Revenues LastDodo shops' offers an incredible added value in pricing. No overview or catalog worldwide can match that.
With that knowledge and information I would suggest adjusting the LD pricing (cfr last column 'Change').

The copy of Morits, the reason for this thread, may not be the gold nugget, but still a nice item #7183163 .
Initially I started from what Michel describes, supplemented with the knowledge that there is an (expensive) unpublished version. But there is a 4th musketeer.

The question then remains whether or not #690323 whether or not as 'series' can hold a place on LD. It looks more like a combination offer to me: the basic stamp with one variant.
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June 19, 2021 13:35
DeBijzaak: colors according to Yvert (2016):
299 (dark) blue = #374369 = 'blue'
300 light(er) blue = #320651 = 'blue clair'
300b Turquoise = #7183163 = 'turquoise'
300A Green-Blue (not on LD, not issued) = 'bleu-vert'
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Morits
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June 19, 2021 14:48
I will have my stamp appraised in due course, but not yet, I have a lot of other work
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June 19, 2021 15:08
I would too. If it really is the blue-green 'scallops', and it is stamped, then I would rate that stamp even much higher than what Scott proclaims.
An unissued stamp (postage stamp?) enters the commercial circuit (or else a catalog that does not mention). The stamp lends itself perfectly to use once in a while (small color difference with the stamp that has been issued). So it is possible. And then it seems plausible to me that there really aren't many such pieces.
Don't keep us in the dark too long, Morits, I'm eager to know the verdict. This is philately through and through :)
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June 19, 2021 15:32
The perforation measured electronically results in : 13.00.

Raoul62 
Why always take the Michel catalog as first and last reference ? That’s the reason why Collect-a-rom (using nearly always Michel numbers) has introduced series n° 690323 (only 2 items known by Michel). That’s the reason why nobody cared until now…, even not the moderators !).

Expérience proves that there are false informations in all catalogues. 

Critical reading and examination of all informations remain essential.

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June 19, 2021 15:38
What is the difference between turquoise and teal?


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June 19, 2021 15:59
Thanks for checking it out. Then I don't have to bring in my perfotronic.

That's why I didn't make a (hasty) change. Consultation (when in doubt) via the forum I always find the best way.
In Michel there was a different value, in Scott there is no perforation, Mijne Yvert is currently missing :) but Wilfred had it handy I thought.
My Stanley Gibbons copies (heavy books) are somewhere at the bottom of a pile, but since you had them on hand?
So no, I don't have any favorites when it comes to catalogs. There is only one favourite: LD.

Saying that nobody was awake or lying is very simplistic. Do you know them all personally, the users and administrators on LD?
And where do I show that I take mere Michel as the first and last reference?
I started with LD, Yvert and Michel. And then Scott added.
Being critical is not a bad quality, pseudo-intellectuality is.
LOL

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June 19, 2021 16:12
fazerco 
That might be the hardest question of all… the difference between teal, turquoise, and teal… turquoise is slightly less dark than teal and is closer to blue than green.
Most catalogs use a reference for determining and naming the colours. They then include that reference in a kind of special color catalog, which you can also purchase (additionally).
Colors exist in thousands of shades and gradations ...  Normally with the specific color catalog next to it you can see exactly the named color ( or determine).
For these stamps, you almost have to be able to put the 2 (the turquoise version, and the blue-green version) next to each other to see which of the two is closer to blue, and which is closer to green.
That's why 'it is the most difficult question of all'.
Wilfredb also wrote it: 'Determining the difference between 300b, 300A or a discolored 300 is indeed difficult.'

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June 19, 2021 16:29
Raoul62 
You said:
#374369 a> is incorrect with regard to the teeth, unless (due to rounding differences) the catalogs Yt and SG contradict this.
You assumed that perforation 13 was a wrong perforation because Michel shows 13¼. Wrong starting point!


I don’t possess the truth, and neither do you.


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June 19, 2021 17:04
I 'assume' nothing. I did write:
unless (due to rounding differences) the catalogs Yt and SG contradict this

You may have missed it because of the language barrier:
sauf si (en raison de différences d'arrondi) les catalogs Yt et SG contredisent cela

You know the way of determining the perforation in the different catalogs? When I have time I'll post it here. Doesn't help, it doesn't hurt. There are always readers who are grateful when useful information is shared. The forum is being read more and more.
It sometimes happens that data doesn't promote to information, but I can't help it.

Again: thanks for checking measuring (merci de l'avoir mesuré).
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June 19, 2021 18:06
Raoul62 

Your answer is beside the point.

Again:

#374369 a> is incorrect with regard to the teeth unless (due to rounding differences)…..”.

Why “incorrect unless…”?

In fact you assumed that Michel (as only catalog available to you) had the correct perforation of 13¼. 
And so incorrect according to you, unless…??

If you had any doubt between 13 and 13¼ you were able to verify in Yvert&Tellier (currently missing :) and in StanleyGibbons (My Stanley Gibbons copies (heavy books) are somewhere at the bottom of a pile), what perforation they mention and finally you could have measured electronically (Then I don't have to bring in my perfotronic.)

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